A Letter to Jenna, but written here because I thought I should respond to it on my blog, and it would be difficult to read if it was a comment
Hey Jenna,
I’m actually doing real good, thanks for asking. Hope you’re doing well too.
I did read the article – didn’t really peak my interest until I noticed that they responded to Piper. I love controversy.
So, I then did the following things (in this order)
I read the thing on Piper’s blog saying that CT responded to him
I read the original CT article
I read the Piper response
I read the CT response
I wrote my blog post (not right away heh)
I got your message
I read Justin Taylor’s quick summary - http://theologica.blogspot.com/2007/10/divorce-and-remarriage.html
I read what Dr. Kostenberger wrote:
http://www.biblicalfoundations.org/?p=154
http://www.biblicalfoundations.org/?p=155
And then I did some research on the “betrothal view” (Piper’s view), which I think I disagree with, but lost interest when I realized it wasn’t a requirement for answering your question.
And here I am. Here are some thoughts:
Here’s what Kostenberger writes:
“Instone-Brewer’s position as argued in his recent CT essay is only a popularization of the view he has argued for years in his scholarly work and that his position has already been addressed in scholarly treatments such as in God, Marriage & Family.”
I realize I had underestimated how well-thought out the CT article’s position was. Instone-Brewer was writing to a broader audience and so simplified his arguments. So, after reading it, I wasn’t impressed, thinking he thought he was more informed than he was. Which is too bad, because when I write about Biblical stuff on my blog (which I guess is pretty often, since I am in serious lack of other interests haha), I try pretty hard to make things as understandable as possible. To judge someone else for doing the same thing is unfair.
Back to Kostenberger:
“Piper contends that Jesus disagreed with Deut 24:1 rather than merely clarifying the meaning of the passage (as Instone-Brewer contends), citing Mark 10:4–9. Instead, Jesus went all the way back to the beginning and reiterated God’s perfect plan for marriage as a lifelong union between one man and one woman. I agree with Piper that this is what Jesus does in Matthew 19, except for the one exception Jesus explicitly states in Matt 19:9 (a crucial point), which Piper leaves aside initially.”
And
“Incidentally, I also agree with your comment [slightly edited] that “in Instone-Brewer’s paper … he argues that Jesus only meant to slap down ‘any cause’ divorce, but then Instone-Brewer argues that divorce for a nebulous concept of neglect is legitimate—which is really close to ‘any cause’ divorce”
I think my main problem, as I wrote earlier, is that when I read the original CT article, I was initially worried that I had read those passages completely wrong since I didn’t know all this background info. But in my mind, I thought “wait, this isn’t right. Jesus isn’t just addressing an erroneous interpretation of Mosaic Law, He’s establishing a HIGHER standard in Matthew 19, cause that’s what the text appears to clearly mean”. So, when I went to Piper and found that he said the exact same thing, I felt more at peace, cause I was like “phew, so I can read the Bible and understand the basic meanings without being familiar with 1st Century Jewish Law”.
But then I read Kostenberger and thought “wait, this guy’s disagreeing with Piper too, what’s the deal?” The issue in my mind is that Kostenberger does not answer Piper’s argument. The text sounds really clearly like Piper is NOT merely affirming Mosaic Law, he is raising the bar. If Kostenberger and Instone-Brewer are right, then what appeared to me after reflection and careful reading and hoping for guidance from the Holy Spirit was wrong.
Does Kostenberger have an answer? Am I just completely misreading the text?
Anyways, its actually really late right now, and I had almost zero intention of reading this much about divorce haha. But I guess it’s something I should know about. Thanks, cause what you pointed me to made me about five times more informed than I previously was.
Your brother in Him,
-adam
I’m actually doing real good, thanks for asking. Hope you’re doing well too.
I did read the article – didn’t really peak my interest until I noticed that they responded to Piper. I love controversy.
So, I then did the following things (in this order)
I read the thing on Piper’s blog saying that CT responded to him
I read the original CT article
I read the Piper response
I read the CT response
I wrote my blog post (not right away heh)
I got your message
I read Justin Taylor’s quick summary - http://theologica.blogspot.com/2007/10/divorce-and-remarriage.html
I read what Dr. Kostenberger wrote:
http://www.biblicalfoundations.org/?p=154
http://www.biblicalfoundations.org/?p=155
And then I did some research on the “betrothal view” (Piper’s view), which I think I disagree with, but lost interest when I realized it wasn’t a requirement for answering your question.
And here I am. Here are some thoughts:
Here’s what Kostenberger writes:
“Instone-Brewer’s position as argued in his recent CT essay is only a popularization of the view he has argued for years in his scholarly work and that his position has already been addressed in scholarly treatments such as in God, Marriage & Family.”
I realize I had underestimated how well-thought out the CT article’s position was. Instone-Brewer was writing to a broader audience and so simplified his arguments. So, after reading it, I wasn’t impressed, thinking he thought he was more informed than he was. Which is too bad, because when I write about Biblical stuff on my blog (which I guess is pretty often, since I am in serious lack of other interests haha), I try pretty hard to make things as understandable as possible. To judge someone else for doing the same thing is unfair.
Back to Kostenberger:
“Piper contends that Jesus disagreed with Deut 24:1 rather than merely clarifying the meaning of the passage (as Instone-Brewer contends), citing Mark 10:4–9. Instead, Jesus went all the way back to the beginning and reiterated God’s perfect plan for marriage as a lifelong union between one man and one woman. I agree with Piper that this is what Jesus does in Matthew 19, except for the one exception Jesus explicitly states in Matt 19:9 (a crucial point), which Piper leaves aside initially.”
And
“Incidentally, I also agree with your comment [slightly edited] that “in Instone-Brewer’s paper … he argues that Jesus only meant to slap down ‘any cause’ divorce, but then Instone-Brewer argues that divorce for a nebulous concept of neglect is legitimate—which is really close to ‘any cause’ divorce”
I think my main problem, as I wrote earlier, is that when I read the original CT article, I was initially worried that I had read those passages completely wrong since I didn’t know all this background info. But in my mind, I thought “wait, this isn’t right. Jesus isn’t just addressing an erroneous interpretation of Mosaic Law, He’s establishing a HIGHER standard in Matthew 19, cause that’s what the text appears to clearly mean”. So, when I went to Piper and found that he said the exact same thing, I felt more at peace, cause I was like “phew, so I can read the Bible and understand the basic meanings without being familiar with 1st Century Jewish Law”.
But then I read Kostenberger and thought “wait, this guy’s disagreeing with Piper too, what’s the deal?” The issue in my mind is that Kostenberger does not answer Piper’s argument. The text sounds really clearly like Piper is NOT merely affirming Mosaic Law, he is raising the bar. If Kostenberger and Instone-Brewer are right, then what appeared to me after reflection and careful reading and hoping for guidance from the Holy Spirit was wrong.
Does Kostenberger have an answer? Am I just completely misreading the text?
Anyways, its actually really late right now, and I had almost zero intention of reading this much about divorce haha. But I guess it’s something I should know about. Thanks, cause what you pointed me to made me about five times more informed than I previously was.
Your brother in Him,
-adam
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